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Originally posted by "Wheatie":Deuce, Thanks for those numbers. Always good to see actuals.

amount of your expenses will be dependant on the quality of tenants that your property attracts, the age of your property, and the number of units (the duplexes probably require a little less maintenance than say an 8 unit).

I owned for 8 years, and it was 3 years old at the time of purchase and needed nothing but a little touch up painting at the time.

I have averaged around 5% vacancy, just from tenants moving in and out. My numbers are actual income, not scheduled. So, my numbers would include the lack of income for those months when the properties are vacant.

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Thanks for all of your advice!

Expenses=30% of gross rents

What Mike is saying about 50% costs is probably a good rule of thumb for conservative cashflow estimates. It pretty much garauntee that you cashflow if you use that number when you are looking at purchasing a property.

Even though you may not have large capital expenses for a long time, you still need capital expenses in your equation or you won have any reserve for theses expenses when you incur them in the future. In addition, you will CERTAINLY have maintenance even if things are all new in the beginning.

Throughout the United States, operating expenses run 45% to 50% of gross rents. Therefore, I use 50% to be conservative.

That 50% figure doesn only include the expenses that come out every month, it also includes the expenses that only occur occassionally. For example, significant damage done by tenants in excess of the security deposit (often thousands of dollars), is an expense that may only occur once in a many years. However, when it does occur, it can wipe out literally many years of cash flow if you haven accounted for it. That is an error that is fatal for many businesses. I see it all the time and have bought numerous properties from failed landlords that have made this mistake.

Also, those numbers include one eviction with a tenant who did about $2500 in damage, and one tenant who broke the lease, and moved out early.

Total expenses between the two = 34% I do expect this number to go up a as the property that is now 11 years old starts to need more repairs. However, the property that I purchased last year will not need as much work over the next year or two since I have taken care of most of it. So, I would think that 40% is a decent long term average between these two properties.

Duplex 2

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Did you have any vacancies? Those aren " expenses" , but when applying the " 50% rule" , the rent used in the calculation is scheduled rent, not collected rent. So, for that calculation, you have to use scheduled rent, and include any vacancies as an expense.

Mike, thanks again for your reply. I read to take 40% as far as NOE go, looks like you suggest %50? My question is, considering we will have a brand newhome at this point would %40 NOE be more realistic? We " should" have no huges expenses for a long time, ie roof, electric ect. What do you think?

I owned for 10 months. It a 30 year old property that had been neglected. It needed minor cosmetic rehab work when I purchased it, and it was empty. So, after replacing some carpet, painting the whole place, and some other minor improvents, here where I at.

where the 50% rule has been brought up. I have to say, I had may doubts that it was anywhere close to that high. So, I finally decided to go back and check the history on both my duplexes and compare. Here the results:

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Duplex 1

Mike, thanks again for your reply. I read to take 40% as far as NOE go, looks like you suggest %50? My question is, considering we will have a brand newhome at this point would %40 NOE be more realistic? We " should" have no huges expenses for a long time, ie roof, electric ect. What do you think?

That 40% figure you saw probably did not account for vacancies or capital expenses, which is why it 10% lower than the 50% figure I use.

We would CERTAINLY bank the $$$. We have no intention of using this property for something other than long term equity. Mike, I hear what you are saying about the expenses many landlords overlook. I much perfer to be conservative rather than gamble. As far as the blue/red states, I have to look into that theory a bit more!

PS: CChilds, Do you attend any local REIA meetings? Haven been able to find any closer than Worcester. We have met somebody who plans on launching a meeting in Springfield area this August. If you interested PM me and I can let you know when it starts up.

We found a 2 family property asking Nike Roshe Navy 115K. We will offer 85K and keep out fingers crossed he accepts. We have spoken to a contractor, for rehab. His estimate is 70K, that includes turning it into a 3 family and adding a coin op laundry room. ARV will be 220K per realtor. FMR are $650 700 X 3 units. Annual taxes are apx $2500, unable to obtain water/sewer at this time. After all is said and done we will have a brand new 3 family home in a decent neighborhood for 155K. This will be our 1st deal, what do you guys think???? I think if we go over 10K we will still be OK. As far as Lowell, I think it might be too far for our 1st renal property. It at least an hour and a half away. Do you recommend starting close to home for your first couple of deals? MA does suck as far as cash flow, perhaps we should start looking in southern VT and NH. Do you know anything about those 2 states?

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Expenses $9600 (including everything but mortgage)Expenses=55% of gross rents

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